Let's get going. So hello, and welcome again. Thanks to everybody for joining. This is the second of our ConCon twenty six experiences. The first we ran in spring. This is our fall edition. Delighted for repeat visitors, and welcome to everybody who is new and joining us for the first time.

So a lot has been going on in the consulting world. That's why the overarching theme that I picked was change is the only constant. I think for plenty of you, you might put turbocharged at the front of that, and hopefully, you'll see through the sessions and the experts that we pulled together, there's gonna be some learnings, some lessons, some insights that you all can get out of today's conference. I'm Ben Edwards. I'm the host of the Consulting Pulse, which is a podcast brought to you by c map dot a o.

I am currently based in Florida in The States, originally from Manchester. You can probably tell from the accent. And really glad that the business I work for, where I'm a VP at, c map, puts on events like this, enables us to build out insight sessions, deliver for the SMB boutique proserve consulting community. We've got a lot to get through today. So we've got topics covering investments and exits, and is that changing because of AI? We've got the growth of a new type of consulting firm built to compete against the Goliaths, how to scale and grow without stalling out in hyperspeed. We've got some sessions around is the org structure and the consulting pyramid changing called...

And the flattening of the pyramids. That will be really interesting to get insights from somebody who'd actually built a completely flat consulting firm before all of this started coming into play.

And we've got our keynote in a couple of minutes, which is gonna be for about ten to fifteen minutes before we roll into the first of those next sessions. Some general housekeeping for you. This is being recorded. So if you like the whole thing or you wanna send individual sessions to your colleagues, you absolutely can.

They will be made available on demand as soon as possible. We have the q and a like a normal webinar, but obviously, we've been running it throughout. So if you wanna ask questions, use that tab. We have opened up the general chat.

So if you wanted to share where you're dialing in from, if you wanna share your own perspectives when people are commenting on and answering some of the questions, give your own insights. We really enjoyed that last time around, so we actively encourage that.

And like I mentioned, we've also got the polls to be running too, so you'll get plenty of insights off back of those.

But why don't we dig into the first of our sessions, which is with our keynote speaker.

For those who don't know, he's the the CEO of Seamap. John said, why don't you give us the intro first, though, John?

Thanks, Ben, and thanks for having me on. So, yeah, hi, guy... Hi, everyone. It's on the on the line. I'm John said, chief exec here at Seamap. I've with the company seven or so years years now. So prior to that, I worked in professional services in a high growth company that's expanding across Europe and The US. So very much lived life in the services world and now on the software side, back supporting the services industry.

And in terms of Seamap, so this is the only plug that you'll get today. So bear with me for the one minute, but, ultimately, we provide the products to people and community that help services firms evolve how their businesses run. And we do that because behind every change, strategy, implementation projects is a firm to run. We wanna make sure that the friction of running the firm never gets in the way of the work that matters. And in terms of our software, we provide one complete platform from everything from bid through to bill with native AI built in, which ensures that we we know your firm inside out. We help ensure that every project gets better than the last and ultimately put your firm's knowledge in everyone's hands.

Very good. And so why ConCon, and why it's so hot on the heels of the one we ran in May?

So we wanted to give people what they asked for. So as I said, like, community's core to who we are, what we do. We've done webinars for many years. Ben, you've been a huge part of that.

But I think the response to what we had in May was unlike anything we've seen before, to be frank. And I think the engagement's fantastic, and and people wanted more. I think, like, bigger picture, the boutiques market is really underserved and really underrepresented. I think the amount of press coverage in the last twelve months for consulting has gone bananas, but that industry conversation is dominated by the big four MBB.

And I think what the wider press overlooks is the boutiques were a huge part of the market, but get very little airtime. So we wanna change that. We wanna we wanna share that conversation and ultimately be the people that can help facilitate that conversation.

Perfect. Golden.

I think secondly, like, beyond beyond that, like, the world's moved. Right? So six months ago in May, it feels like about six years. And I think as the ground is shifting this fast, it's really easy as a leader to become quite reactive, living sort of hand to mouth, playing whack a mole. Today is hopefully a chance for everyone to step back a little bit, reflect, hear what's working from other people, challenge what they're hearing, and, share share what you're finding and and plan how you navigate it going forward. So I think the last thing I'll say on this is, you know, we we do this for... We do this... We do these sessions for everyone that's that's attending. It's your day.

Please use the chat. Ask the awkward question. Challenge what you're hearing. Share share your own experiences. And I'm sure Ben will do his very best to to pick up those questions as they come through, but it also helps shape the content that we'll do no doubt off the back of this and and next time around in the spring, perhaps.

Yeah. Love all of that and absolutely echo some of those sentiments. It's it's a golden age for the SMB. The market's changing, but the coverage around it is limited for the people that operate in our space. Like, what were some of the big themes that you picked up on from the concom we ran in May?

Yeah. So we had our we had our perfectly oriented sessions. We had seven sessions, 15 speakers, but then I think, for me, like, two themes emerged that we didn't necessarily anticipate before the day. So I think first one, all around outcomes and pace of delivery, and then secondly, around what that means for the teams. So touching on the first one's outcomes and pace of delivery.

The reality is consulting clients, you know, now think they can do more themselves. That traditional consulting arc used to be diagnose, design, deliver. I think clients now turn up, believing at least that they've already done the diagnosis, believing at least they're halfway through the design, and what they really value is the delivery. And I think, to some extent, there's a job in helping walk clients back a little bit and making sure that diagnosis is really done properly and the solution's really tested.

But I I do think the direction is clear here. And as a buyer of consulting services myself, like, it it does resonate. And I think, ultimately, the engagements that clients...

The consulting firms do can't end with a PDF. It has to end closer to a delivered outcome, which, of course, pushes the conversation into the realms of pricing on an outcome basis.

And I think the bit that's linked to that is then what that does for teams and team shape. And I think what we're seeing is fewer pure analyst type roles and much more value in the senior and mid level practitioners that can, at the start of the day, sit around the table with a CEO and talk strategy, and they're at... At end of the day, be working on the solution that puts that into practice. And I think Christian put it very well last time when he framed it as strategic judgment plus hands on execution being the absolute gold dust for the skill set that you need in in today's age.

And I think, for me, like, reflecting on those two sort of themes, like you said, Bennett, it's a massive opportunity for boot... For boutiques. You move faster. You've never relied on the pyramid to the same extent. You've always led with senior practitioners. The world is changing fast, but, like, in those stormy seas, it's better to be in the the speedboat and the oil tanker. So, actually, your size, speed, flexibility are things that actually are an advantage, I think, in this changing market and can play aggressively into those themes rather than being them being necessary challenges for you as an organization.

So just pick up on one of the lots of things that you mentioned that were interesting. Well, Christian's back, first off, so that's good. So we'll be getting fresh insights from him. Yeah.

The second thing is the outcomes piece and hearing lots of chatter about the buying of services needing, like you just described, not not just SlideWare, not just PDS or report, but actually something more tangible. Yeah. And you you hinted that that was gonna lead to more outcome based pricing. Can you share some more thoughts around that?

Yeah. So we see this fairly close-up because, naturally, we we partner with firm...

Consulting firms on how they run, how they operations, how they price, how they deliver their margin. And for me, when it comes to outcome based by...

Outcome based pricing, this is a spectrum rather than a one or a zero. So...

But one of them in the spectrum, you got your time and materials, then fixed fee, then fixed fee plus outcome, and then pure outcome. And I think pure outcome is getting the headlines because it's the sort of easy thing to talk about for the press. But, I guess, what I've seen is very few firms fully doing it today, and, interestingly, very few buyers of consulting services necessarily being completely comfortable with And I think where the work is very clear, very measurable. So if you're in the in the procurement basis or contract negotiation or anything linked to a transaction, I think the pure outcome based work can can work to both sides.

But in other areas, it's it's a lot harder. It's terrible time to be making forecasts and predictions, but should we go with one then, like, to ten minutes in? I think, like, to me, where does this settle? I think it probably sets...

Settles at productized services with fixed fee, but within an outcome element on top, which aligns incentives. I think the real risk is for those people that are on pure T and M. That's where the exposure is. If AI is helping you deliver faster or there's a perception, it's helping you deliver faster and you're billing by the hour, all that AI is doing is engineering the margin out of your work.

So making sure that, actually, you're productizing and and then getting those gains yourself is is absolutely crucial.

Okay. Before you go, AI dropped there. And very deliberately, we haven't had any of the sessions, including this keynote, have AI in the headline because it's now almost just part of a firm's existence.

It's more day to day than, like, a specific thing on its own. Can you share with us sort of what have you seen? What has Seamap seen across its 700 plus clients, 40,000 users that sort of alludes to what good looks like with that AI, sort of wearing that AI hat.

Yeah. So twelve months of AI in two minutes. Let... Let's go. Shall we then? So, like, what what would I say? It's less than a year since OPUS 4.5 came out, which is when it felt like the real inflection point for AI.

Huge amount of change. A lot going on. I guess what we've had a up close and personal view on is how is this impacting how firms run behind the scenes. I think, fundamentally, our point of view is that AI AI is amplifying whatever the foundations it finds.

So on clean structured data with rocket fuel, on messy data, it can be a disaster. I think the trap with AI is the sugar heads. It's easy to get those instant wins. The temptation to build is enormous.

Everyone gets that clawed glow. I have it myself. When you build this, all have it. But what we often see is the firms that sort of dive into that, they take those three steps forward.

Actually, you have to take one or two back to actually deliver real fundamental business change. I think what we're seeing across the market is what the most mature firms are doing is fixing the foundations first, getting their data, their governance, their guardrail sorted, getting their firm's knowledge and their firm's context in order because all of that is what you need to effectively productize your services, and all of that is the foundations that turns the AI into real rocket fuel. So the real value comes in changing the business processes behind how you win, deliver, make your margin.

That's what changes the shape of the firm. That's what changes the economics of the firm. And I think that's what ultimately puts you 10, 15, 20 steps ahead rather than the the quick wins that get you a few forward and mean that you have to step back. So key takeaway for me would be fix the foundations first, then change the process.

That's when the enduring gains come through, and that's where the real margin opportunity lands.

Perfect. Very good. Appreciate your insights, John. Fantastic start to ConCon twenty six full edition.

Any final words? If not, I'm gonna crack on with the remainder of the the sessions.

Let's keep going, Ben. You got us on a tight schedule, but I hope everyone really, really enjoys the sessions. As I said, please participate, challenge, share opinions. Can't wait to hear what you all think.